梦想成真 - 匈牙利Avant-garde Metal乐队Thy Catafalque专访

今天采访到的是来自匈牙利的老牌乐队Thy Catafalque，成立于1998年的Thy Catafalque乐队最初是由Tamás Kátai和János Juhász共同组建，与大多数乐队不同的是，Tamás Kátai从2004年开始就使用匈牙利语开始创作歌词，作为一支老牌乐队，Thy Catafalque发行大量的作品，每一张专辑都非常具有实验色彩，尤其是受到黑金属的影响非常浓重，优美的旋律给人留下了深刻印象，每一张专辑Tamás Kátai都会邀请临时成员加入乐队，这样也让Thy Catafalque乐队的每一张专辑都给人一种全新的感觉，前不久杂志与乐队的主创人员Tamás Kátai取得联系进行了一次专访！

（V: 代表笔者 T: 代表Tamás Kátai）

Today's interview is with Hungarian veterans Thy Catafalque, originally formed in 1998 by Tamás Kátai and János Juhász, who, unlike most bands, have been writing lyrics in Hungarian since 2004. As a veteran band, Thy Catafalque has released a large amount of material, each album is very experimental, especially with a strong black metal influence, and the beautiful melodies are impressive. The magazine contacted Tamás Kátai, the band's creator, for an interview!

(V: a szerzőnek T: Kátai Tamásnak)

采访对象：Tamás Kátai（Thy Catafalque乐队创始人）

采访时间：2025.04.09

V: 你好Tamás Kátai先生，非常感谢您接受采访。这应该是您第一次接受中国杂志的采访。首先向所有的中国粉丝和朋友们问好。Thy Catafalque是一支历史悠久且一直不断创新的独特乐队。可以介绍一下您是如何创建Thy Catafalque这个乐队企划的吗？

Hello Mr Kátai, thank you very much for this interview. This should be your first interview with a Chinese magazine. First of all, greetings to all our Chinese fans and friends, Thy Catafalque is a unique band with a long history and always innovating. Can you tell us how you came to form Thy Catafalque?

T: 你好，我们的乐队成立于1998年，和我的朋友János Juhász一起，他负责弹吉他，我负责其他的一切，包括人声和鼓的编排。我们来自匈牙利东南部的一个小镇，而且我们只想演奏Black Metal。

Hello. We started the band in 1998 with my friend, János Juhász, playing the guitar and me everything else, including vocals and drum programming. We were coming from a small town south-east Hungary and we just wanted to play black metal.

V: 我知道你一定被问过很多次这个问题了，但是对于许多乐迷来说，Thy Catafalque发行新专辑的速度和您的创作效率在我们看来依然非常的不可思议。你在之前的采访中提到过，在完成一张专辑后，通常你已经准备好一两首未发行的歌曲给您的下一张专辑了。我想知道，你是如何保持如此高效的创作速度的？对于Thy Catafalque来说，一首歌曲从开始到最终完成通常都有那些步骤？

I know you must have been asked this question many times, but for many fans, the speed at which Thy Catafalque releases new albums and the efficiency with which you create them still seems pretty incredible to us. You've mentioned in previous interviews that after finishing an album, you usually have one or two unreleased songs ready for your next album. I'd like to know, how do you maintain such an efficient creative pace? For Thy Catafalque, what are the steps that usually go into a song from start to final completion?

T: 是这样的，这取决于很多的因素。现在因为我们从2022年起开始现场演出了，留给我创作和录音的时间大大减少，但这也许这样更好，有时太多就是太过了。但情况是，我依然非常享受音乐创作，这么多年过去了，我对创作过程仍然感到兴奋，所以我一直在创作，情况就是这么简单。但总有些时候，以前也有过这样的情况，我只是没心情创作或者生活中有更重要的琐事，这时我会把音乐放一边，去做该做的事。当一切顺利时，我又会回到创作的轨道上来。其实我并没有创作音乐的秘诀，每一次创作音乐都会有一些不同，我希望保持这种方式，这样才能让自己和乐迷都保持新鲜感和兴奋感。

Well, it all depends on a lot of factors. Nowadays, as we play live since 2022 I have considerably less time composing and recording but probably it's a healthy thing, sometimes too much is really too much. But the thing is I still really enjoy making music, I am excited by the creative process after so many years so I'm doing it, it's simple as that. But there will be a time, and there had been before when I'm just not in the mood or there are more important chores in life and then I put music aside and do what needs to be done. When everything's fine, I'm back on track. I have no recipe for making music actually, it's a bit different every time and I'd like to keep it that way so it stays fresh and exciting for myself and for the listeners as well.

V: 如果把Thy Catafalque的音乐比作电影，你就像是这部电影的幕后的导演。在Thy Catafalque的每一张专辑中，你都会请到许多不同的客座乐手来一起完成这张专辑，可以和我们分享一下，在制作专辑的过程中你是怎样和不同的乐手合作的吗？对你来说，在和如此多不同乐手的合作过程中，那些方面是你认为最难协调的？你又是如何推进专辑的制作工作的？

If we compare Thy Catafalque's music to a film, you are like the director behind the scenes of the film. On each of Thy Catafalque's albums, you've had a number of different guest musicians working on the album together, can you share with us how you worked with the different musicians during the making of the album? What aspects of working with so many different musicians were the most difficult for you to coordinate? How did you move forward with the album?

T: 这比你想象的要容易得多。我们有互联网，当我需要某种乐器的录音时，网络就帮大忙了。我只需写下乐谱或发送midi文件，然后，我和乐手讨论要录制什么，最后我会收到一份用于制作的文件。就是这样。对于专辑中的大多数音乐家来说，我们甚至都不认识彼此。对他们来说，这是一份工作，而我需要他们的工作，以达到歌曲的最佳效果。最重要的永远是音乐。而对于歌手们来说，情况则有些不同。这更加个人化，而同时这种个人化也非常重要。

It's much more easier than you'd think. We have internet and it's quite useful when I need a recording of a special instrument. I just write the sheet music or send the midi file and we discuss what to record and then I receive a file that I work with. It's like that. For most of the musicians on the albums we don't even know each other personally. This is a job for them and I need their work in order to achieve the best result for the song. It's only the music that matters. With vocalists, it's a bit different. It's much more personal and it's important to be like that.

V: Thy Catafalque的音乐元素包罗万象。在你的音乐里，除了标志性Black Metal声音，还有许多匈牙利的民谣元素，电子音乐，等等。你在以前的采访中提到过，你不会特意去听ack Metal音乐，而是会去听各种风格的音乐。我还是非常好奇，是什么让您想要演奏金属或者说Black Metal这一类型的音乐？在刚开始接触到金属音乐时，哪些乐队或者哪些音乐家对你启发最大？

Thy Catafalque's musical elements are all encompassing. In your music, apart from the signature black metal sound, there are many Hungarian folk elements, electronic music, and so on. You've mentioned in previous interviews that you don't listen to black metal music specifically, but rather to a variety of styles. I'm still very curious as to what made you want to play metal, or black metal as a genre? What bands or musicians inspired you the most when you were first introduced to metal music?

T: 其实我现在仍经常听Black Metal和各种金属乐。当你还是个孩子时，你的大脑就像一块海绵，几乎所有东西都会对你产生巨大的影响。是这样的，当我还是个孩子时，金属乐对我的影响绝对是巨大的。尤其是黑金属，所以我会尝试去做这样的音乐似乎是显而易见的。但我第一次接触的金属乐是一支德国Heavy Metal乐队——Stormwitch。他们的现场现场专辑在我们当地的商店打折出售，封面看起来很有趣，于是我们就买了，那是一次美妙的经历。之后我们又接触到了这些经典的金属乐，Metallica、Megadeth、Slayer以及更多的极端金属。说到Black Metal，对我来说影响最大的是挪威Black Metal第二波浪潮：Burzum、Immortal、Emperor、Enslaved、Mayhem、Satyricon、Darkthrone、Ulver、Limbonic Art以及这些乐队的无数分支。

I still listen to a lot of black metal and all kind of metal actually. When you're a kid, your brain is like a sponge and almost everything has humongous impact on you. Well, when I was a kid, metal was definitely an impact on me. Especially black metal, so it seemed to be obvious to try to do something like that. But my very first encounter with metal came in the form of a German heavy metal band, Stormwitch. Their live album was on sale in the local shop and the cover looking interesting so we bought it and it was a wonderful experience. Then came the classics, Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer and more extreme stuff. Talking about black metal it was the second wave of Norwegian BM for me, Burzum, Immortal, Emperor, Enslaved, Mayhem, Satyricon, Darkthrone, Ulver, Limbonic Art and their million side projects.

V: 与大多数的金属乐队不同，Thy Catafalque用匈牙利语进行创作，而这也是Thy Catafalque独具一格的重要因素之一。据我们所知，从2004年的"Tűnő idő tárlat"专辑开始，Thy Catafalque就完全使用匈牙利语进行创作。是否可以告诉我们是什么让你决定开始用匈牙利语进行所有的歌词创作？你是否担心过非英语创作可能会带来乐迷的流失和与失去主流市场的关注？

Unlike most metal bands, Thy Catafalque writes in Hungarian, and this is one of the most important factors that make Thy Catafalque unique. As far as we know, Thy Catafalque have been writing exclusively in Hungarian since 2004's “Tűnő idő tárlat” album. Is it possible to tell us what made you decide to start writing all your lyrics in Hungarian? Were you worried that writing in a language other than English might lead to a loss of fans and a loss of attention from the mainstream market?

T: 就这么说吧，（Black Metal）这种音乐从来就和主流市场没有任何关系，特别是在刚起步的时候，所以这根本不是因为主流市场的问题。事实上我对听众们完全不感兴趣，对此我很抱歉，不过我不在乎。整个音乐企划是一件绝对自私的事情，我们为了自己的乐趣而创作音乐，我仍然在这样做。在我们发行前两张专辑之后，我意识到用母语唱歌要自然和明了得多。这是我可以最自然地表达自己的方式，自从我意识到这一点后，这个选择我就没有再犹豫过。就像所有人都有自己的母语一样，既然我也拥有一门可以熟练运用的母语，为什么还要苦苦挣扎于使用一门后天习得的语言呢？

Come on, this music has never had anything to do with mainstream market, especially not in the beginnings so that was no factor at all. In fact I have never been interested in the audience, I'm sorry about that but I just don't care. This whole thing is absolutely selfish, we made music for our own pleasure and I still do it this way. After our first 2 albums I realized it's much more natural and obvious to sing in my mother language. This is how I can express myself the most naturally and there was a point I just saw it and since then it's a no-brainer. Why would I struggle with a learnt language when I have one that I master like everyone their own mother tongue?

V: 在2024年11月，Thy Catafalque发行了第十二张录音室专辑“XII: A gyönyörű álmok ezután jönnek”。我看到很多人都把这张专辑列入了他们的2024年度十佳金属专辑榜单中。在你看来，新专辑得到的反响如何？

In November 2024, Thy Catafalque released their twelfth studio album, ‘XII: A gyönyörű álmok ezután jönnek’. I see that a lot of people have included this album in their list of the Top 10 best metal albums of 2024. In your opinion, how has the new album been received so far?

T: 显然，很多人都喜欢这张专辑，大家似乎很享受它。这并不好说，因为专辑中的音乐非常多元，每个人都有自己喜欢的时刻和歌曲类型，不可避免的是，无论你做的什么都会让一部分人失望。因此，最好的办法就是什么都不考虑。

Well, many like the album apparently and people seem to enjoy it. It's not easy to say because the music has been so diverse on the albums that everyone has their favourite moments and types of songs and it's unaviodable that anything you do will disappoint someone. So the best tactics is not to consider any of it.

V: 新专辑听起来有些像是对前几张专辑的完美概括，首先我们在第一首歌曲中会听到优美的匈牙利民谣旋律，接着就是"Alföld"中让人印象深刻的标志性Black Metal重型riff。你在之前的采访中说过，你认为前几张专辑在声音上听起来有些同质化，所以希望在新专辑中做出改变，而在“XII: A gyönyörű álmok ezután jönnek”中你很好地做到了这一点——在不同的音乐风格间找到了一个平衡，同时很好地让各种音乐元素和谐地组合在一起。这是怎么做到的？相比上一张专辑，音乐上你认为调整最大的是哪个方面？

The new album sounds somewhat like a perfect encapsulation of the previous albums, starting with the beautiful Hungarian folk melodies we hear on the first track, followed by the impressive and iconic black metal heavy riffs of ‘Alföld’ You said in a previous interview that you thought the previous albums sounded a bit homogenised sonically, so you wanted to make a change for the new album, and on ‘XII: A gyönyörű álmok ezután jönnek’ you have done this very well - finding a balance between the different styles of music, while at the same time doing a good job of bringing the various musical elements together in harmony. How was this achieved? Which aspect of the music do you think was the biggest adjustment compared to the last album?

T: 新专辑中的歌曲比"Alföld"更具实验性和趣味性。"Alföld"绝对可以算是一张纯粹的Black Metal专辑。我想把那些练复段从我的音乐系统中剔除，我很高兴我这么做了，我真的很喜欢"Alföld"。所以那些元素最终被我去掉了，我可以重新开始探索新的声音了。最大的调整是新专辑中使用的乐器数量很多，而且声音制作与之前的专辑相比完全不同。这次不是由我混音和制作唱片，而是由专业录音室的专业音响工程师来做繁重的工作，制作确实更好了。制作人是匈牙利塞格德录音室Miracle Sound的录音/混音工程师Gábor Vári，即将发行的专辑我也想和他一起制作。

It's just there is more experimentation and playfulness in the songs than on Alföld. Alföld was decidedly a dark and heavy metal album and no more. I wanted to get those riffs out of the system and I'm glad that I did, I really like Alföld. So that kind of stuff was finally gone and I could get back to the adventures of new sounds. The biggest adjustment was the big number of instruments used here and the sound production which is totally new compared to the previous albums. This time it was not me mixing and mastering the record but there was a pro sound engineer in a pro studio doing the heavy lifting and the production is really better. It was Gábor Vári at Miracle Sound Szeged and I'd like to work with him on the upcoming album as well.

V: 相比Thy Catafalque的上一张专辑"Alföld"，新专辑在音乐上和主题上明显更加温暖明亮了，这是在开始创作这张新专辑时就设想好的音乐氛围吗？在这张新专辑的主题上，你的主要创作灵感来源是什么

The new album is significantly warmer and brighter musically and thematically than Thy Catafalque's previous album ‘Alföld’, was this the musical vibe envisaged when you started working on this new album? What were your main sources of inspiration for the themes of this new album?

T: 正如我之前所说，这次的创作我的倾向于更加冒险，但除此之外，这张唱片背后没有任何的概念。我只是想写些新歌。

As I said before I was in a more adventurous mood this time but other than that there was no conception behind the record. I just wanted to write a couple of new songs.

V: 距离Thy Catafalque的最新一张专辑发行还不到半年，虽然还为时尚早，但我还是想问，对于Thy Catafalque的下一张专辑你有哪些展望？有没有什么您想尝试加入到Thy Catafalque的新的音乐元素？

It's less than six months since the release of Thy Catafalque's latest album, and although it's still early, I'd like to ask, what is your vision for Thy Catafalque's next album? Are there any new musical elements that you would like to try and incorporate into Thy Catafalque's sound?

T: 是的，我已经录制了6、7首歌，虽然还缺很多东西，但主干已经完成了。音乐中会有一些非常大胆的尝试和新元素，也会有一些非常黑暗和悲伤的段落。会有很多铜管乐器、木管乐器和一些民族乐器。

Yeah, I have 6 or 7 songs already recorded with many missing things but the backbones are done. There will be some very bold moves here with new elements in music and there will be some really dark and sad passages. A lot of brass and woodwinds and some ethnic instruments.

V: 对于接下来的创作，您是否有非常想一起合作的艺术家？如果有机会，你是否愿意尝试其他形式，比如影视配乐之类的音乐创作？

Are there any artists you'd really like to work with on your next album? If the opportunity arises, would you like to work on other forms of music, such as film and TV soundtracks?

T: 我没有特别想合作的人。特别是因为我不是一个好的音乐家，我会让我的英雄们失望的，所以这样更好，我没有这样的抱负。不过我很想制作电影配乐以及为各种电影和影片配乐。

I don't have a list of people I'd like to work with specifically. Especially because I am not a good musician, I would disappoint my heroes so it's better this way, I have no such aspirations. However I'd love to make film scores and generally music for films and movies.

V: Thy Catafalque的唱片制作都很精美，在Thy Catafalque的社交账号上，我看到每一张专辑都会有许多不同颜色的黑胶，专辑的封面设计也很漂亮，你喜欢收集唱片吗？对于专辑的视觉艺术，你是怎样为唱片设计这些精美的视觉艺术的？

Thy Catafalque's records are all beautifully produced, on Thy Catafalque's social media accounts I see many different colors of vinyl for each album, and the album cover arts are all really beautiful, do you enjoy collecting records? For the visual art of the albums, how do you create all this beautiful visual art for the records?

T: 这很有意思，因为我没有黑胶唱片机，也从来没听过自己的黑胶唱片，也不收藏唱片。但我对艺术，包括美术非常感兴趣，我热爱它们。所以当谈到专辑的视觉方面时，它对我来说一直是至关重要的，我花了很多精力在唱片里的美术作品和整体外观上。我认为它是整体的一部分，与音乐和文字一起。所有这些共同创造了专辑的真正意义。

It's interesting because I do not have a vinyl record player and I never ever heard my own vinyls and I do not have a collection. But I'm deeply interested in arts, including fine arts and I love them. So when it comes to the visual side of the albums, it's always critically important for me and I put a lot of effort on the artworks and the general appearance of the records. I consider it part of the whole, together with the music and the words. All of these together create the real meaning of the album.

V: 2022年，Thy Catafalque发行了第一张现场专辑"Mezolit (Live at Fekete Zaj)"，对你来说制作现场专辑和制作录音室专辑最大的不同是什么？你在之前的采访中说过你不太擅长乐器演奏，所以选择演奏相对简单的贝斯。有什么是在现场演出中你认为困难的部分？

In 2022 Thy Catafalque released a live album ‘Mezolit (Live at Fekete Zaj)’, what is the biggest difference for you between making a live album and making a studio album? You've said in previous interviews that you think you're not very good at playing instruments, so you choose to play bass at live shows because it’s relatively simple. What are some of the parts of playing live that you find difficult?

T: 我不能算是真正的音乐家。不幸的是，我从没学习过演奏，但我和有能力演出的乐手们相处得足够久，所以我知道，我们在不同的水平层次。不过没关系，比起表演，我更喜欢写音乐。但我必须和乐队一起站在舞台上，而且我喜欢这么做，我清楚自己的能力范围，仅此而已。说到现场专辑的录制，最大的不同是我只需要在三首歌曲中演奏贝斯，而不是在整张复杂的专辑中演奏所有乐器，所以这对我来说是一种巨大的解脱。

I'm not a real musician. Never learned it unfortunately but I'm around those guys enough that I can tell, that's a different level. But it's fine. I enjoy writing music better than performing it. But I have to be on stage with band and I like it, I just know my boundaries, that's all. Talking about the recording of a live album the big difference is that I had to play bass in only 3 songs and not on all of the damned album on all instruments so it was a huge relief for me.

V: 在Thy Catafalque之前，你加入过不同的乐队。在之前的采访中您提到过，你认为你当时创作的作品有些不尽人意，但这些过往的经验对您接下来的音乐事业有很大的帮助。请问对于想要创作音乐或者想要组建自己的单人企划的年轻乐手，你有什么建议吗？

Before Thy Catafalque, you were in various bands. In a previous interview you mentioned that you felt that the work you created at the time was a bit underwhelming, but that these past experiences have helped you in your next musical endeavours. Do you have any advice for young musicians who want to create music or start their own solo project?

T: 我不确定我是否有资格给任何人提供建议，但如果你问我的话，热爱你在做的事情，这才是最重要的。如果你想演奏音乐，表达自己，那就去做吧。不要制定策略，不要耍小聪明，不要斤斤计较。音乐永远都在，它容易又简单。我很幸运，Season Of Mist（Thy Catafalque的唱片厂牌）选择了我，但如果没有唱片公司，我想我也会做同样的音乐。我肯定不会现场演奏，但我会录制专辑，只是因为我喜欢创作音乐。

I'm not sure if I am in the position of giving advice to anyone but if you ask me, just like what you do and this is all that matters. If you want to play music, to express yourself, go ahead and do it. Don't make strategies, don't be smart about it, don't calculate. Music will always be there, it's easy and simple. I was lucky Season Of Mist picked me up but I think I would do the same if there would have been no labels around. I'm sure I would not play live but I'd be recording albums simply because I like creating music.

V: 2025年，Thy Catafalque将要参加Hellfest，Alcatraz等等许多的金属音乐节，首先祝你演出顺利。对于2025年的现场演出，您有那些期待？

Thy Catafalque will be playing Hellfest, Alcatraz and many more metal festivals in 2025, so first of all, good luck with the shows. What are you looking forward to playing live in 2025?

T: 非常感谢。是的，今年我们将参加一些大型音乐节，我们曾在Brutal Assault、Dark Easter等音乐节上表演过，但今年这些音乐节对我们来说规模更大，所以会很激动人心。此外我们还将于秋季在拉丁美洲进行巡演，这将是我们迈出的又一大步。我们拭目以待吧，我有点紧张，哈哈。

Thank you very much. Yes, this year we'll have some huge festival ahead of us, we have played at Brutal Assault, Dark Easter and some more but these festivals will be even bigger for us, so it's gonna be exciting. Also we'll have a tour in Latin-America in the autumn, that's another massive step. We'll see, I'm sort of nervous, haha.

V: 谢谢您接受这次采访！Thy Catafalque是一直非常独特的乐队，我会一直喜欢并支持你。许多中国乐迷通过"XII: A gyönyörü álmok ezután jönnek"认识了Thy Catafalque。如果有机会，你考虑到亚洲或者中国进行现场演出吗？你有什么相对中国乐迷们说的话吗？

Thank you very much for participating in this interview! Thy Catafalque is always a very unique band and I will always love and support you. Many Chinese music fans got to know Thy Catafalque through ‘XII: A gyönyörü álmok ezután jönnek’. Would you consider playing live in Asia or China if you had the chance? Do you have any message for Chinese fans?

T: 事实上我们确实收到了去中国的邀请，但后来发现是个骗局，所以我们拒绝了。不过，一旦我们收到合法的邀请，我们当然很乐意造访亚洲。非常感谢这次采访，我很荣幸。

Actually we did have an invitation to China but it turned out to be a scam so we declined but once we get a legit offer we're happy to visit Asia of course.Thank you very much for this interview, it was a pleasure.