生与死的循环 - 德国Atmospheric Black Metal乐队Harvst专访

Volcano Magazine
1 day ago
20 min read

今天我们采访了一支来自德国的极具氛围感的Black Metal乐队——Harvst。该乐队成立于 2018 年。他们的首张专辑“Narbenhain”于 2019 年发行。这张专辑发布后，哈夫斯特收到了大量的正面反馈。这也是第二张专辑“Mahlstrom”的创作动力。6年后第二张专辑"Mahlstrom"发行了。这张专辑堪称一场听觉盛宴。其中充满了丰富的细节和流畅的过渡，你永远不会感到厌倦。这次我们也邀请了Harvst乐队进行采访，主要谈论了新专辑的创作过程和核心内容。

（V: 代表笔者 H: 代表Harvst乐队）

Today we interview a atmospheric black metal band from Germany, Harvst, which is formed in 2018. And their debut album Narbenhain was released in 2019. After this album released, Harvst reveiced a log of positive feedback. This is also the creative motivation of the second album Mahlstrom. After 6 years, the second album Mahlstrom released. This album can be regarded as an auditory feast. There are very rich details and smooth transfer, and you will never feel bored. And this time we invited the band Harvst to do an interview, mainly talking about the creation process and the core of the new album.

(V: represents author H: represents Harvst band)

采访对象：Wynthar，Dornh，Raụch（Harvst乐队全体成员）

采访时间：2025.11.10

V: 你好，感谢你接受这次采访。在我们开始之前，能否请你介绍一下您的乐队？乐队是什么时候成立的？当初为什么想要组建这支乐队？乐队现在的情况如何？

Hello, thank you for accepting this interview. Before we start, could you introduce your band? When was it founded? Why did you want to form this band in the first place? How is the band doing now?

W: 感谢你给我们机会分享一些关于我们的事情。Harvst由我和Dornh于2018年创立。当时我们都有自己的项目，而且我还有一些未完成的作品。我们决定看看一起合作会有什么成果，结果一拍即合。我们的首张专辑"Narbenhain"很快就完成了。我们的音乐根植于Black Metal合了多种风格。我们不喜欢过多地给它贴标签，总是努力不断进化，不局限于一种风格。"Narbenhain"为我们带来了不错的成绩后，我们满怀热情地开始创作新作品。然而，新冠疫情以及随之而来的政治和社会问题改变了很多事情，有一段时间我们失去了全身心投入的动力。直到Rauch加入担任鼓手，他的热情重新点燃了我们的激情。我们终于完成了第二张专辑"Mahlstrom"。从开始到完成花了大约五年时间，期间也有几次中断，但我们倾尽了所有心血。在经历了这么多工作之后，我们现在正在短暂休息，但已经为接下来的发行有了很多想法。

Thanks for giving us the chance to share a bit about ourselves. Harvst was founded in 2018 by Dornh and me. We both had our own projects at the time, and I still had a lot of unfinished material lying around. We decided to see what might come from working together, and it just clicked. That is how our debut Narbenhain came together very quickly. Our music has its roots in black metal but mixes many influences. We do not like to label it too much and always try to keep evolving without limiting ourselves to one style. After Narbenhain did quite well for us, we started working on new material with great enthusiasm. Then the Covid years and all the surrounding issues in politics and society changed many things, and for a while, we lost the drive to fully dive back in. When Rauch joined on drums, his energy brought the spark back. We finally completed our second album Mahlstrom. It took about five years from start to finish, with some breaks in between, but we put everything we had into it. Right now we are taking a short break after all that work, but we already have ideas for the next releases.

R: 由于我是在 2023 年中旬才加入乐队的，所以对于乐队的创立过程并没有真正的了解，而且“Mahlstrom”这张专辑的很大一部分在那时已经完成，所以我希望把前几个问题留给我的乐队成员们，因为我的有限认知无法提供任何有见地或有趣的内容。

Since I only joined the band well into 2023 and therefore had neither real insight into the conception of the band, and a huge part of Mahlstrom was already written, I would like to leave the first few questions to my bandmates, as my limited knowledge wouldn’t offer any insightful or interesting addition.

V: 为什么乐队想要被称为"Harvst"？你能介绍一下这个名字的由来吗？

Why did the band want to be called "Harvst"? Could you introduce the origin of this name?

W: 人们确实经常这样问我们。而且似乎大家对它的发音也有些困惑。有些人把“V”读成“U”，认为是“Harust”，这是不对的。它的发音就是像写出来的那样—— Harvst（发音类似“harfst”）。我来自德国北部，那里的人们过去说一种叫做Plattdeutsch的方言。这种方言如今几乎没人说了，可能只有老一辈还在说。比如说我的祖母，她还能说这种方言。Harvst在那种方言里意为“秋天”，我喜欢它能与我的根源和我的出身联系起来的感觉。这就是我选择这个名字的原因。实际上，这个名称在该项目成立之前就已经存在了，就像现在这样。

People actually ask us that a lot. There also seems to be some confusion about how to pronounce it. Some read the “V” as a “U” and think it’s “Harust,” which is not right. It’s pronounced exactly as it’s written Harvst (like “harfst”). I’m from northern Germany, where people used to speak a dialect called Plattdeutsch. Hardly anyone speaks it anymore, except maybe the older generation. My grandmother, for example, still could. Harvst means “autumn” in that dialect, and I liked how it connects to my roots and where I come from. That’s why I chose the name. It actually existed even before the project as it is today was founded.

V: 你在2025年初发行了第二张专辑。距离你的第一张专辑已经过去了六年。对于这张专辑，你有什么看法？制作它花了你多长时间？你认为它是在延续还是创新了你的第一张专辑？

You released your second album in early 2025. It's been six years since your first album. What do you think of this album? How long did it take you to make it? Do you think it's a continuation or an innovation of your first album?

W: 是的，正如之前所提到的，这张新专辑的制作耗时很长，部分原因是我们在制作过程中没有持续进行，或者并非总是能够顺利进行。为了区分这两张专辑："Narbenhain"更像是由一些旧作与两位人士的影响相结合而成的集合体，是我们对这个项目的第一次尝试。而"Mahlstrom"则是Harvst首次完全独立且自然成熟的发行作品，Rauch作为最新成员也贡献了自己的一部分。我将"Mahlstrom"描述为哈维斯特核心本质的真实写照——比"Narbenhain"更加成熟和内省的一张专辑。所以这绝对可以被视为一种进步。我们不仅深化并明确了我们自己的风格，而且在几乎每一个方面都使其更加精致和成熟。至少在我看来是这样的。

Yes, as mentioned before, the new album took a long time to complete, partly because we did not work on it continuously or were not always able to. To distinguish the albums from each other: Narbenhain was more of a collection and mixture of older works combined with the influences of two people, serving as our first attempt with this project. Mahlstrom, on the other hand, is the first completely independent and naturally mature Harvst release, with Rauch contributing his own parts as the newest member. I would describe Mahlstrom as what Harvst truly is at its core – a more mature and introspective album than Narbenhain ever was.

So it is definitely to be understood as an evolution. We not only deepened and defined our own sound but also made it more refined and sophisticated in almost every respect. At least that is how I see it.

V: 你的专辑主题是什么？你的歌词似乎蕴含着一些哲学思考。你能简单谈谈你的歌词吗？你喜欢阅读历史或哲学方面的书籍吗？

What's the theme of your album? Your lyrics seem to have philosophical thoughts. Could you briefly talk about your lyrics? Do you like reading some history or philosophy books?

D: 文字一直对我有着特殊的吸引力。我喜欢阅读，但主要喜欢的是小说类作品或者某些心理学分析方面的书籍。在创作自己的歌词时，最让我着迷的，是通过个人投射所产生的多维度感知能力。在"Mahlstrom"中，我运用了一个看似航海的隐喻，这营造出一种阴森的底层声音，而我们主题的真正核心却是心理层面的：这段文字是对作为人类的意义的诗意的解释。它描述了与死亡的必然性抗争、等待的徒劳以及在冷漠世界中对意义的不懈追寻。漩涡的性质——一个吞噬一切的漩涡——因此成为了生命本身的隐喻：它是不可避免、难以理解且有着令人极其不安的冷漠。此外，区分外部现实与内心体验的困难也是一个反复出现的主题。这暗示着一种认识论的困境：无法客观地区分痛苦或苦难的外部因素或内部过程。我们将“Mahlstrom”这个词视为一个不断围绕着我们自身并存在于我们内部的过程。每个人在其一生中都会陷入这种状态：起初是破坏性的，但随着认知的加深，也会变得富有成效。我想要创造一种文本层次，为细心聆听者提供足够的解读空间，同时又始终与我当时密切观察到的个人主题保持一致。我清楚地知道这些文本对我来说意味着什么，但对于你来说，由于你自身的个人经历，它们可能会在你的脑海中唤起完全不同的图像。我一直觉得这很有趣。这关乎行文之间的空白：“Mahlstrom Part 1 - der Aufschrei des Vergangenen”表面上探讨的是海上遇险的主题，但其核心却围绕着情感失明的深深痛苦以及对个体冲突能力的某种绝望感。在循环的末尾，随着"Mahlstrom Part 2 - der Abschied des Dechiffrierten"的最后一拍，人们可以真正感受到一切发生了多大的变化：事物有了时间去成熟并被内化。从愤怒和绝望中形成了接纳。这使得告别成为可能。如果随后你聆听“现在直到最后”，某种平静甚至会降临。情感上的转变变得清晰可见。我想把这一点与任何与我的文字产生共鸣的人分享：允许自己的脆弱以一种建设性的方式存在，会引导我们通过反思走上自我认知的道路。你属于你自己，但并非任由自己摆布。明白了这一点就能增强自我效能感。只有这样，才能确保当前的境况不会将你撕裂。也许你会改变方向，也许甚至会乘风破浪——谁知道呢？

Words have always had a special attraction to me. I enjoy reading, but mostly fiction or certain psychoanalytic works. What fascinates me most while working on my own lyrics, is the versatility of perception through individual projection. In "Mahlstrom," I use an apparent nautical metaphor, which creates an eerie underlying noise, while the true core of our theme is psychological in nature: The text is a poetic meditation on the human condition. It describes the struggle with the inevitability of death, the futility of waiting, and the ceaseless search for meaning in an indifferent world. The nature of the maelstrom - a vortex that consumes everything - thus becomes a metaphor for life itself: inevitable, incomprehensible, and profoundly disturbing in its indifference. Also, the difficulty of separating external reality from inner experience is a recurring theme. This suggests an epistemological dilemma: the impossibility of objectively distinguishing between the causes of pain or suffering, whether external influences or internal processes. We view the term “Mahlstrom“ as a process that constantly revolves around and within us. Everyone gets caught in it at some point in their existence: initially destructively, but with increasing insight, productively. I wanted to create a textual level that offers ample room for interpretation for the attentive listener, yet always aligns with personal themes I was closely observing at the time. I know exactly what the texts mean to me, but for you, due to your own human experiences, they might evoke a completely different image in your mind. I have always found that fascinating. It's about the white space between the lines: "Mahlstrom Part 1 - der Aufschrei des Vergangenen," for example, superficially deals with the theme of maritime distress, but at its core, it revolves around the deep suffering of emotional blindness and a certain hopelessness regarding the individual's conflict capability. At the end of the cycle, with the final beat of "Mahlstrom Part 2 - der Abschied des Dechiffrierten," one can truly feel how much everything has changed: things had time to mature and were internalized. From anger and despair, acceptance is formed. This makes farewell possible. If you then listen to "Jetzt bis zuletzt", a certain peace even sets in. The emotional transformation becomes tangible. I think that's what I’d like to share with anyone who feels a certain resonance with my texts: Allowing one's own vulnerability constructively leads to the path of self-knowledge through reflection. You are given to yourself, but not at the mercy of yourself. Understanding this enables self-efficacy. Only this ensures that the current doesn’t tear you apart. Maybe you’ll change direction, maybe you’ll even surf the wave - who knows?

V: 这张专辑的封面是一个漩涡。那么，您是否希望通过这个封面来传达某种特定的含义呢？您能否也简要介绍一下这张专辑中同名的两首歌曲"Mahlstrom"？您觉得这两首歌是否完美地传达了这张专辑想要表达的概念呢？

The cover of this album is a vortex. So, do you want to express any specific meaning through this cover? Could you also briefly introduce the two songs of the same name "Mahlstrom" on this album? Do you think these two songs perfectly convey the concept this album intends to express?

D: 我想要展现"Maelstrom"中最关键的元素：脆弱、悲伤，但最终也隐约透出一丝希望的微光。那些年的感觉就像是一个逐渐变得“赤裸”的过程，仿佛所有的盔甲都已脱落——那些用来构建“自我”或甚至进行自我欺骗的物件和特质逐渐失去了意义。我们被迫接受这样一个事实：赤裸裸地做为人类，摒弃幻想，本身就是一种痛苦，而一个人能够——而且确实应该——去接受这种痛苦。这就是为什么封面描绘了一个人类的身形悬于破裂的海面上，在无边无际的荒野中漂泊。在其下方是漩涡，而这个人类形象则在上面脱去自己的外皮。正是在这无尽的不确定性之中，我们得以短暂地瞥见一种超越的景象。我认为在传达这个场景的氛围方面，特别重要的一点是，尽管其画面充满了怪诞的元素，但却散发出一种深邃而宁静的平和感。这不是我们所看到的挣扎，而是一种迟来的蜕变。其背后的主题并非是痛苦，而是自我实现——通过接受的过程超越旧有的形态。关于这两首歌的双重性：应当将其理解为一个过程的开端与结束，就像一条通往另一个地方的隧道——一个入口与一个出口。就像某种向你诉说的声音，尽管你尚无法解读其含义。随着时间的推移，你会开始感受到这些歌词可能所蕴含的意义。在整张专辑中，我们的转变变得清晰可见，而这正是由这两首作品所构成的框架所促成的。

I wanted to show the most pivotal elements of the Maelstrom journey: vulnerability, sorrow, and yet a faint glimmer of hope emerging towards the end. Those years felt like a process of becoming raw, as if all pieces of armor had fallen away - the things and attributes through which one had constructed a sense of "self" or even engaged in self-deception gradually lost their significance. We were compelled to accept that being human, stripped of illusions, is inherently painful, and that one can - and indeed should - embrace this pain. This is why the cover depicts a human form suspended above a ruptured sea, adrift in the middle of nowhere. Beneath it yawns the maelstrom, over which the human figure sheds its skin. It is within this vast uncertainty that, paradoxically, we are afforded a fleeting glimpse of transcendence. What I find particularly essential in conveying the atmosphere of this scene is that, despite its grotesque imagery, it emanates a profound and serene tranquility. It is not a struggle we observe, but rather an overdue metamorphosis. The underlying motif is not one of suffering, but of self-realization - a transcending of an old form through the act of acceptance. Concerning the duality of the two songs: they should be understood as the beginning and the end of a process, like a tunnel leading to another place - an entrance and an exit. Like some sort of periphery that speaks to you, though you cannot yet decipher it. Over time, you start to sense what the words might mean. Our transformation becomes tangible throughout the album, framed by these two compositions.

V: 看起来你从未参加过任何演出活动。为什么你一直没有进行过表演呢？

It seems that you have never participated in any performances. Why haven't you given any shows?

W: 是的，确实如此。我们是一个纯粹的录音室乐队，目前没有计划进行现场演出。这就是生活本来的样子。我们都有全职工作和各种日常事务，所以现在根本没有时间去做这样的事情。对我们来说，创作音乐是关于创造力和表达，而不是增加更多的压力或将其变成工作。举办演出和巡回演出不可避免地会变成那样的事情。登上舞台只是可见的部分。其背后还有无尽的排练、与几位现场乐手的合作、寻找排练场地、处理设备、后勤工作以及所有随之而来的个人关系等等。我也有过在舞台上的经历，虽然在当时它本身是很棒的，但现在它的缺点和缺乏时间的状况超过了这一切。我认为多恩也抱有同样的看法。但劳赫在这方面则更为积极主动和充满活力，但他年纪较小，能够以自己的方式享受这一切。

Yes, that’s true. We are a pure studio band and currently have no plans to play live. It’s simply the way life goes. We all have full-time jobs and the usual commitments, so there is just no time for something like that right now. For us, making music is about creativity and expression, not about adding more pressure or turning it into work. Playing shows and touring inevitably becomes exactly that. Being on stage is only the visible part. Behind it there is endless rehearsal, organizing with several session musicians, finding a rehearsal space, dealing with gear, logistics, and all the personal dynamics that come with it. I have had my time on stage, and while it was great in its own way, the downsides and lack of time now outweigh it. I think Dornh feels the same. Rauch is a bit more driven and energetic about such things, but he is also younger and can enjoy that in his own way.

R: 我完全同意Wynthar已经说过的观点。此外，我还想补充一点，我认为对我们所有人来说，创作音乐是一种极其个人化的体验。能够现场演奏我们现在的歌曲，我们至少还需要再增加两个人。找到那些既能从音乐上又能从深层次的个人层面产生共鸣的人并非易事。我们目前的阵容是自然而然形成的，我们首先成为了朋友，然后才成为乐队成员。仅仅为了现场演奏我们的歌曲而寻找音乐人会让人感觉很做作，而且我也不愿意花那么多时间与那些我至少无法在某种程度上深深联系在一起的人在一起。正如Wynthar所说，我并不反对现场演出，将来我也希望能走上舞台，因为我目前参与的其他项目也都是工作室项目，但对我来说，这一切必须自然而然地发生，而目前这还没有实现。

I second what Wynthar has already said. Additionally one must add, that I think for all of us making music is an incredible personal experience. To be able to play our current songs live we would at least add two more people to the mix. Finding these people with whom you click, not only on a musical but also on a deep personal level isn't easy. The line-up we currently have came together organically and we all became friends first before we became bandmates. Finding musicians for the sole purpose of playing our songs live would feel very forced and I would not be happy to spend such a huge amount of time with people I can´t connect at least somewhat deeply with. As Wynthar said I am not opposed to play live and would someday like to find my way onto a stage, since every other project I am currently part of are also studio projects, but for me it has to occur organically and that simply hasn´t happened yet.

V: 你认为这个乐队对你而言有何重要意义？是体现在精神层面，还是在你的日常生活方面？

What do you think the significance of this band is to you? Is it on a spiritual level or in terms of your daily life?

R: 对我而言以及我参与的其他音乐项目而言，创作音乐就是关于自我表达。它能为那种无法抑制的创作欲望找到一个释放的途径，这种欲望是我从记事起就一直存在的。它意味着将自我形象融入音符、节拍和歌曲之中。在一个常常让人感觉不自由、充满束缚感的世界里（如果你无法达到这个世界的所谓“正常”和“有成效”的标准，就会如此），它就是一种自由。它意味着创造一个让我能够真正展现自我的安全空间，同时也意味着偶尔能从现实中获得一种逃避的机会。

Harvst for me, as well as the other musical projects I am involved in, is about self-expression. It is about giving that insatiable urge to create, which I have felt for as long as I can remember, an outlet. It is about carving a reflection of myself into notes, beats, and songs. It is freedom in a world that often feels unfree and constricting if you cannot live up to the norm of what said world has labeled productive and normal. It is about creating a safe space where I feel like I can truly be myself, and it is also about having an option of escape from reality every now and then.

V: 你觉得哪些因素对你的音乐产生了影响呢？比如某些乐队或者其他什么东西？

What do you think has influenced your music? For instance, some bands or other things?

R: 我所接触到的每一件艺术作品，无论是书籍、绘画、电影还是音乐，都会在某种程度上影响我的音乐创作。但我不能说这是一股持续且直接的灵感来源，因为那些令人难忘的艺术片段往往会留在我的脑海中（往往不被察觉），并融入到我创作时无意识汲取的各种想法、图像和概念之中。音乐无疑是我最常接触的媒介，但我的喜好常常会迅速改变，而且也常常取决于我当下的心情，所以我无法确定有哪支乐队能一直陪伴我很长时间，或者对我的影响比其他我喜欢的乐队更大。唯一始终影响我的是生活本身。这听起来可能有些俗气，但仅仅存在于这个世界里的存在本身，每天都会给我带来足够多的美好和糟糕的经历，这足以让我创作出更多的专辑，而我（很遗憾）永远无法写出那么多。我觉得，在录制一张专辑时塑造我生活的那些经历，最终对我的音乐风格的影响要远远大于我一生中所接触到的任何艺术作品。这样一来，我参与的每一张专辑都仿佛成为了一个时间胶囊，能够保存下我当时的观点、情绪以及对每张专辑录制过程的记忆。

Every piece of art I consume, whether it’s books, paintings, films, or music influences my own music in some way. I can’t say it’s a constant or direct source of inspiration, though, since fragments of memorable art tend to stay with me (often unnoticed) and blend into a mix of thoughts, images, and ideas that I unconsciously draw from while creating. Music is by far my most consumed medium, but my preferences often quickly shift and also often depend on my current mood, so I couldn't pinpoint a band that has stayed with me for a significant amount of time or that has influenced me more than other bands that I have enjoyed. The only thing that constantly influences me is life itself. It may sound cheesy but just existing already provides me with enough beautiful and horrible experiences on a daily basis, which could fuel more albums than I (sadly) will ever be able to write. I feel like whatever experiences shape my life at the time of the recording of an album end up shaping my sound much more than whatever art I have consumed throughout my life. That way each release I am part of sort of becomes a time capsule, conserving my views, mood and memories of the time each album was recorded.

V: 你能给我们描述一下德国Black Metal的地下场景吗？你认为德国Black Metal有什么特点吗？

Could you describe the underground scene of German black metal to us? Do you think there are any characteristics of German black metal?

W: 我已经有很长一段时间没有关注那个领域了，所以可能对当前的情况不太了解。从个人角度来看，我已经与它保持了距离并且也不认同它。随着时间的推移，我觉得它变得过于注重理性思维和精英主义了。不过，德语和德语区的Black Metal或地下音乐圈却有着众多令人印象深刻且具有影响力的乐队，它们敢于打破旧有的模式。这正是让我觉得它与众不同的地方。我能从那里获得很多灵感。

I haven’t really been following that scene for quite some time, so I’m probably not up to date with the current situation. On a personal level, I’ve distanced myself from it and no longer identify with it. Over time it started to feel overly intellectual and elitist to me. Still, the German and German-speaking black metal or underground scene offers a wide range of impressive and influential bands that dare to break away from old patterns. That’s what makes it special to me. I’ve been able to draw a lot of inspiration from it.

R: 虽然我偶尔会参加几次演出，但我并不认为自己是那个圈子的一部分。我当然很喜欢很多极端音乐，Black Metal仍然是我最喜欢的音乐类型，但我从未觉得有必要或想要加入一个只有少数共同兴趣的更大团体。我大多数的音乐朋友根本与Black Metal毫无关系。不过，我认为这是一个巨大的优势，因为它让我能够更深入地了解更广泛的音乐领域。在我年轻的时候，我确实努力按照某种特定的风格来打扮自己，但这种情况也已经发生了变化。最近，我开始在服装选择上重新加入一些色彩元素。具体说到音乐方面，我认为德国Black Metal音乐的特色在于其非常多样化且毫无章法，考虑到通常用来界定Black Metal这一音乐流派的那套严格的框架，这种多样性与无序性已经相当明显了。与挪威的音乐场景相比，德国的Black Metal音乐并没有特定的“德国风格”，这种自由（正如Wynthar之前所说）既有趣，又极具启发性。至少对于那些喜欢稍有突破常规的音乐的人来说是这样。

Although I attend a few concerts every now and then, I wouldn’t really consider myself a part of the scene. I certainly enjoy a lot of extreme music, and black metal is still my favourite genre of music, but I have never felt the need nor the want to be part of a bigger group with whom I only share a few interests. Most of my musician friends don’t have anything to do with black metal at all. I would, however, consider this a huge asset, since it allows me to gain more insight into broader musical horizons. When I was younger, I certainly tried to dress “the part,” but that has also changed, and recently I have started to let some colour back into my choice of clothes. Talking music specifically, I would say that the characteristic of the German black metal scene is that it is really diverse and quite ruleless, considering the already tight corset that normally defines black metal as a genre. There isn’t a specific German sound as there is, for example, in the Norwegian scene, and that sort of freedom makes it interesting (as Wynthar said before) and also really inspiring. At least if you are into music that is a little outside of the box.

V: 非常感谢你接受这次采访。我会继续关注您的乐队并期待你的下一张专辑。那么在结束时，你还有什么想对大家说的吗？

Thank you very much for accepting this interview. I will keep following your band and look forward to your next album. So, is there anything else you would like to say to everyone at the end?

R: 非常感谢你接受这次采访，也感谢每一位花时间阅读这篇文章的人。特别要感谢每一位支持我们的人，以及每一位支持独立和地下艺术的朋友们。在我的有生之年，自由表达的需求从未像现在这样重要。所以，大声地表达，做与众不同的事，做真实的自己。这个世界确实需要更多这样的表现。没有法西斯主义的空间，人工智能艺术没有灵魂，资本主义也没有未来。支持那些真正创作真实艺术的人们。

Thank you so much for this interview, and thanks to everyone who took the time to read it. Big thanks to everyone supporting us and to everyone supporting independent and underground art in general. The need for free expression is more important now than it’s ever been in my lifetime. So be loud, be weird, be yourself. The world certainly needs more of that. No room for fascism, no soul in AI art, and no future in capitalism. Support real people making real art.